VCTF-SubmergedXXL Finished (see last reply)

[Molgan[ApA]]

Since the original VCTF-Submerged was doomed as too CTF'ish I made a version with a little more V in it. Basicly I have scaled it up, raised the roof, added rides and allso added some architecture. Would be glad if it could be beta-tested here, its the first time I allowed manta runs in a map and I'm pretty sure what the response to that would be over at Apskaft. ^^

The bots got confused by the rearrangements and just rush the enemy flag and unlocks the vehicles, but I hope real players behave better..

Changes:
- Scaled it up ~25% all over.
- Raised the roof an additional 1024uu.
- Added platform above the base reachable with lift.
- Opened up above the reactor and placed DD reachable with Raptor and Manta (with some trick driving required).
- Opened up new routes above the side entrances to the reactor room to get easyer acess for Raptor.
- Added Pally on old HB spawn and moved the HB to old Scorp spawn.
- Added Raptor up on new platform.
- Added Manta on the right side of flag platform.
- Added mini gun turret by the Goo pick up.
- Moved LG from beam to new platform.
- New signs in spawn rooms with the "Mitch-font". =)

Grab:
http://www.apskaft.com/UT/files/UT2004/vctf-Submerged-VehicleWhorage-beta1.rar

[Mr.Sunshine]

Looks great! I like the thing how you managed the spaw points 

[Jonny]

Very good map Molgan! I liked it before but i definitaly think this is an improvment, it's less ctfish nowand more vctf. Btw nice job with scaling it up...that must have been difficult no? I do have a few pointers tho, as its still in beta.

1. Lighting is adequate, but a bit gloomy. Maby quirk it up abit and add some interesting shadows/ tones, i think this could do alot for the maps looks. Fog is fine but also kinda gloomy - maby gray or gray/blue? just suggestions 

2. Although i think the new lightning/raptor platform is v cool, i liked using the lift jump to get a reward where the lightning was. Maby add ammo or a bunch of 6 vials, or something.

3. A few minor problems:

Noticed this light was floating rather soon after testing, maby just add a bsp column hanging from ceiling/wall.


A very minor thing, notice the slight hom effect when looking at the dd. if u cant fix this, screw it - hardly matters just pointing it out:


Also saw afew floating lightning pickups, and i think maby the jump pads 4 the flags could be slightly further away from the platform.

Other than that, loved it! The spawn idea is cool, the architecture is wicked and the gameplay (if anything like redrooms) will be gr8.

[Molgan[ApA]]

Good pointers. The light is my biggest issue in mapping, so hard to get it right. I want it to be a little bit gloomy since, well its submerged. =) Gonna add some light sources and try to get the contrast light/shadow more interesting. And yeah changing scale when all items are allready placed was kind of tricky, and there are some floting and allso imbedded items left to fix hehe. The HOM effect is because I forgot to increase the fog end distance after I scaled it up. Good you saw it, a thing like that would have tortured me if I missed it and noticed after the map was final..

[Annihilator]

I've added the map to the server, but have also respectfully renamed it to VCTF-Submerged-VW-Beta1. Too much is - too much.

[Molgan[ApA]]

... have also respectfully renamed it to VCTF-Submerged-VW-Beta1. Too much is - too much.

hehe =)

[Jonny]

  because you renamed it, and i cant download anything from ut, i cant play this map online 

spose ill have to wait for the next version, but molgan, make sure anni doesnt have to rename it this time plz!

[Mr.Sunshine]

because you renamed it, and i cant download anything from ut, i cant play this map online 

spose ill have to wait for the next version, but molgan, make sure anni doesnt have to rename it this time plz!

what about renaming the map you've downloaded to the name Anni gave it?

[Molgan[ApA]]

To get this ready for the christmas map pack I really would be greatful for some comment on the vehicle/item placement. Should something go, be added or moved?

[mustap-]

from the little i looked at it offline it seems ok.playing it online will reveal more about the vehicles,the weapon availability ,map problems etc.i noticed 2 things.first i would like to see a pair of link ammo other than the spawn room & second the lack of womd for the situation where the enemy defenses become very cramped  .i know that its an apa custom not to have them in the map but for me its a must (even if i rarely use them)

and another thing ..i get the feeling that the raptor loses too much health when bumbing on the walls.maybe its my imagination though as i am very tired 

[Molgan[ApA]]

omg, you mean I should not only allow manta runs, I should add a Deemer too? Maybe replace the DD with a nuke?

Will add more ammo for the link and also other weps, running out of ammo is annoying since there are no weapon lockers. I haven't done anything to the Raptor and it's sensitivity against walls, everything is default. Maybe its just more obvious since its a narrow map. Might be a trick to lower the damage, but I'm not sure.

[mustap-]

yeah. i guess the map has narrow spaces for the raptor,that's  why you feel it more.
i wouldnt recomment removing the dd but rather find a way to add the deemer..since the map is symmetrical the only place i can think of is the centre.maybe a place above or below the dd where you must do a shield or shock core jumb to get it or get back up.f.e . a small pedestral extending from the central column( the place where dd is )that you can easily fall to but you can only get back up to the dd with a trick jumb or a hidden place where you can only reach with trick jumb.i mean that the wall will seem solid but in reality it would be void..well not exactly... the deemer will be there  this could be at the central column or either at the left or right  top entrances. just bah leave it as it is .i must play it online to see if the gameplay is already good.well for me anyway

[Jonny]

cant see much use for the raptor in this map...its indoors so its hard to fly, and your so close to people on foot u'll be scrap metal before you can do much. Maby put the manta where the raptor is, and add a hellbender or something - but as mustap says its hard to tell with bots. If you wanna keep the raptor, maby extend the height of the roof above those columns. Other than that i think one scorp and one bender is better than 2 scorps and no bender. Maby even 2 scorps and 1 bender but that might be a bit spammy 

obviously for lighting look at shipped underwater maps, like that DM one...uno with the green gassy floor grates - and the ctf deep one, tho im sure uv looked at that for the bubbles. BUT take note of the general atmosphere, it feels very underwater base like.

anyway gl! iv godda get on with road and aeolus myselph - have some ideas but it will be pushing it getting them done 4 xmas!

- oo just had another thought - uno i posted on it being nice having something to lift jump to where the lightning was, well maby you could put double damage or keg or something there, and then put a nuke in the middle? just a thought 

[Jonny]

Add a deemer in a map this small? Are you nuts? You can blast the whole enemy base away with that!

I like the current weapon and pickup setup. Please don't add a deemer to it, it'll a walk in the park to do a mantarun. All you need to do is not get spotted near the elevator, go up, jump down and nuke yourself. There goes the whole defense.

Sry Nova, ur right, i think i was just getting carried away there 

[mustap-]

well yeah ,the map is kinda small for a deemer(then again think of massdestruction that has not 1 but 3 womd{2 ion painters + redeemer+dd} and still the gameplay is amazing),the raptor idd feels like out of space there.it looks to me more like an ictf map   maybe magnifying the side borders+the space in front of each base would makeit seem better?
i feel this map somewhat strange,not the feeling i got when i played redrooms (where not much vehicles either)where i knew first sight that it would be good.something about the gameplay doesnt sit well to me.i played it once online and it ended fast leavin me a bitter feeling.too easy-not enough action.maybe its too easy to get away with the flag with that jumbpad there and it has no suficient measures against mantaruns.the paladin can easily be toasted by standing at one of the top bridges and fire a bit of rox. maybe the other teams was full of not-very good players +they prolly played the map first time but still...